There has been a lot of hoopla lately about the recent release of the video game, (aka, GTA4). Many parents are up in arms over its raunchy themes and the constant bad behaviors displayed by the main characters. Behaviors like killing police officers, drunk driving, doing drugs, frequenting strip clubs and plowing down innocent pedestrians with various stolen cars. Oh yes, and let’s not forget the constant stream of f-bombs and offensive language.
In this recent stir of controversy surrounding GTA4, even Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) has had . They’ve requested the Entertainment Software Ratings Board (ESRB) to reclassify the game as “Adults Only”; its current rating is Mature. In addition, they’ve called on publisher Take-Two Interactive and developer Rockstar Games to consider stopping distribution of the game.
I get it, I really do. The game is incredibly irreverent on many levels. How do I know? Because my husband bought the game and has been playing it for the last week.
So yes, I’ve seen it. I’ve sat alongside my husband for several hours, watching him play. Both of us periodically find ourselves saying things like, “OMG! I can’t believe he just did that! That is sooooo bad!!” in reaction to the antics of the game’s characters. And then we shake our heads and laugh.
Personally, I think MADD and all the other parents freaking out about this game need to chill out.
Now hang on a sec before you blast me for saying that! Let me explain my stance.
I think the critical problem here, the thing that parents are losing sight of, is the fact that not all video games are intended for children. Yet somehow many parents seem to think that they are, so they get upset when a game is inappropriate for their children. But you know what? Video games are like movies. Some are for kids, and some are for adults. Plain and simple.
The makers of GTA4 did not create this crazy game for kids. They made it for adults. (And yes, there are a lot of adults that play video games. My hubby and I included.) This is why the game is rated M, which means “mature”, which means basically the same thing as an R-rated movie.
And that’s what parents need to compare video games to: movies. Video games are not “toys”. They are a form of entertainment made for people of every age. Just like movies, you have to use your parental judgment to decide what your kids are allowed to play. Would you plop your 5-year old in front of an R-rated movie? Of course you wouldn’t. Neither should you plop them in front of M-rated games.
The ratings are there to help us, the parents. It is our responsibility to pay attention to those ratings and to supervise the games our children play. We need to teach our children to use sound judgment when playing games at a friend’s house. We need to foster relationships with the parents of our kids’ friends so that everyone is on the same page. And if the other parents don’t care and let their 10-year old play M-rated games, then guess what? I guess Johnny doesn’t get to go to Davey’s house anymore. You are the parent. It’s up to you to parent your children, not up to the video game industry to make games you approve of.
As for MADD, I do understand their concerns. The problem here again is that they are losing sight of another important aspect of video games: this is fantasy, it’s not real life. Just because I’ve watched a movie depicting someone driving drunk doesn’t mean I’m going to decide to go out and do it myself. I’m an adult and I know the difference between make-believe and real life, between right and wrong. Video games made for adults are no different. If you’re offended by the content then don’t watch the movie or play the video game.
My husband is one of the sweetest, most level-headed, gentle and responsible people I know. Trust me, I have no worries that after playing GTA4 that he’s going to somehow suddenly decide to become a gangster and start driving drunk. He’s not. He’s going to keep working at Microsoft making video games, and being the wonderful husband (and soon to be father) that I know him to be. And when kiddos finally grace our household, games like GTA4 won’t be anywhere to be found.
To familiarize yourself with game ratings, please visit the ERSB website. If you read the descriptions GTA4 is appropriately rated as M. Descriptions of movie ratings can be found on the Motion Picture Association of America website.
This entry also posted with the . Copyright 2008 Susan Metters. All rights reserved.
_______________________________________________________
In addition to being a writer and aspiring mom, Susan Metters also carries the distinguished title of Cancer Survivor Extraordinaire. Some of her secret ambitions include meeting Dr. Phil, hosting Saturday Night Live, and rising to the top as a rock star. You can read more about Susans life adventures by visiting her blog with the Seattle P.I., . If you have ideas, questions, rants, or ramblings feel free to email Susan at susan [at] seattlemomblogs [dot] com.
Yes, amen to that. Although I’m not a “gamer” at heart, I do love me some Guitar Hero and Wii Sports . . . that being said, more parentd DO need to pay attention to the ratings. More parents need to UNDERSTAND that game ratings are just like movie ratings.
My kids aren’t allowed to play these kind of video games (they are 11 and 9 – the 4-yr-old isn’t into them). They have seen them at their cousin’s, however, and I am always in between a rock and a hard place about it. Now, the next time there is any discussion I’ll simply say, “I don’t let them even watch PG-13 without checking it out first, so why would I let them play a game with the same rating?” Thank You.
Also, I wonder, can underage kids (under 18 or whatever it is to see a rated R movie these days) purchase games rated M? I’ve never even thought about that!
GTA4 is played daily in our home. By my husband. Usually after the kiddo is in bed. Like you say, it’s an ADULT game, and is only being marketed as such.
Carrie, I love Guitar Hero too! And Rock Band is even better… I gotta have more cowbell! LOL
And yes, you need to show ID in order to purchase an M-rated game so underaged kids shouldn’t be able to buy them. Obviously it’s not policed and regulated like buying alcohol or tobacco, but the sales people are supposed to card the kids.
Jezer, have you watched your hubby play it much? Last night my hubby’s character got in a fist fight with a hooker and she kicked his butt. LOL
Susan,
I am going to have to totally disagree with you on this post. I think you are way off the mark.
First of all, video games are NOT movies. A violent or raunchy movie is over in 2 hours and then done with (though certain images will stay in the brain for a LIFETIME) but a video game is played over and over and over for hours a day. And a movie is just that- a movie you watch it. No participation involved. In a game you are making the decisions.
Secondly, “Just because Ive watched a movie depicting someone driving drunk doesnt mean Im going to decide to go out and do it myself” may be true, but watching (and participating) in something like GTA (1-4) is going to desensitize you to the behavior. How can you really say that? Society’s mores and values are SO tied to the media. Our media shouts out all kinds of nonsense about sex, drugs and other filth. There are more people today walking into malls and open firing, more people living together before marriage, more girls wearing not enough clothing to school and more just general violence and immorality than ever before, and you are going to say media has no effect on that? (I know, that’s not what you said, but you sort of implied it).
I understand the ratings system, but I don’t personally believe that just because you are 18 means you SHOULD watch R rated movies. I don’t buy into the whole “these movies are for adults, and these are for kids.” If they aren’t good for kids, why are they good for you? Of course this is a discussion for another time…
Let me just say however, that I don’t watch R rated movies or play M-rated games. Nor do I let my husband do those things. Because I don’t think it’s entertaining to watch someone commit murder or watch a sacred act between a couple being defiled on the screen. That stuff makes me sick to my stomach and I don’t want those things in my brain. What you take in, you put back out.
Anyway, Back to GTA4. Now of course, parents should be aware of what’s going on with their kids and be selective about media they watch. That’s a given. And I am not really worried about them seeing it at Johnny’s house (if they ever evenTHINK about playing it, they won’t likely see the light of day for a long time). It’s Johnny I am worried about. It’s Johnny’s parents who aren’t so discretionary that I worry about. It’s little Johnny who, as a child, cannot separate tv from reality. Johnny who will become desensitized, who will hurt or kill one of my children as a drunk driver or shoot one of my neighbor’s children or any other various gross crimes.
It’s the kind of world that is being shaped by allowing these things to be in it. Society is being formed by the kinds of movies we watch and the kind of games we allow to be played. If a person can make light of a prostitute being beat up on tv, what will that person do if they see it in real life? What kind of compassion, love, respect and good things are we teaching our children? Do you want to live in a grand theft auto world? I don’t.
I could say a whole lot more. I really could. But I am done now.
Well, I agree with Stephanie in part and with the post in part.
We need better media in our world to help inspire people to be better. Bad media promotes bad things. Good media promotes good things. Anyone who doesn’t think media has an effect on society is a fool. Ask anyone in marketing. Media is one of the most influential forces in society.
Thankfully parents and friends are even more influential than media. Good parents and friends can do wonders against a world full of filthy media.
Yeah, GTA should probably get the A rating, but ratings are ratings and not really much to go by. I’m just glad they put the content description next the the letter rating. It really upsets me that a game like Halo would be put in the same category as GTA… but whatever. In the end I know what I’ll play and what I won’t. Irrespective of the rating (it could be E for all I care), if it doesn’t make me feel how I want to feel while playing it, then I’ll chuck it.
I try to teach my kids that we only want to put good things in our minds to help us be better people. Putting bad things in our minds just makes it that much harder to focus on the good.
So why fill our minds with trash? Sure some of the other aspects of the particular piece of media may have merit (a fun game, an educational movie), but why mess with it when it has been tainted with that filth? It’s kind of like getting a tasty danish at the bakery that has a piece of poop on the top of it. Why not pick a better danish that doesn’t have any poop on it (Nintendo, Pixar, etc)? Oh wait, it’s because we often like the taste of a little poop in our danish. It gives it that little edge that really does it for us… gets us a little high maybe.
Mmmm, tasty poop….
By the way, speaking of great games, check out one we just released:
Wits & Wagers
http://www.hiddenpath.com/
Irronically, it was previously scheduled to be released the same day as GTA4!
“Behaviors like killing police officers, drunk driving, doing drugs, frequenting strip clubs and plowing down innocent pedestrians with various stolen cars. Oh yes, and lets not forget the constant stream of f-bombs and offensive language.”
I have to respectfully say that, AS AN ADULT, ANY of the above listed behaviors in the game are not OK in my book, no matter what age you are…
This is good! Discussion is a good thing. Often we shy away from the controversial topics because were afraid to ruffle feathers, but discussing things like this challenge our thinking and thats always a good thing. So first let me say thank you for your comments and sharing your thoughts.
In regards to the post, I purposely didnt make a judgment call about the content either way nor did I question if a game like GTA should even exist in the first place. I simply stated some facts: Ive watched the game, the game is not intended for kids, and video games are make-believe. Then I offered some opinions: parents need to take responsibility for what their kids play or watch, adults can (and should be able to) make their own entertainment choices, and playing an edgy video game will not turn a responsible adult into an irresponsible one.
Now I do agree that things like movies, TV and video games have influence. As Michael said, youd be a fool to think otherwise. Media is clearly powerful. But it is not the only influence, nor is it the most powerful influence. I think things like video games are often used as a scapegoat when the real problems lie with other things, such as irresponsible parenting (among other things). For good or for bad, probably the most powerful influence on a persons life is his/her parents.
I think there are much bigger problems in the world than games like GTA, and video games certainly arent the cause of those problems. War, famine, prostitution, child abuse, raping and pillaging have all existed since the beginning of time long before video games were even invented. If anything, the content of our media is a reflection of our society, not the cause of it.
Oh, I also wanted to reply to Michaels question about why someone would even want to play certain games or watch certain movies. Thats difficult to speculate because the reasons are as unique as the individual. All I can do is speak for hubby and me, and we wholeheartedly agree that GTA is filled with a lot of raunchy stuff. But we both know its make-believe (and its highly irreverent on purpose) and my husband is a gamer-geek who likes to try out new games. He plays it because he likes geeky stuff like the amazing realism of the graphics and the outstanding driving physics. Could he get that from other games? Sure, but its the latest big release in the video game world and thats why we have it. Gaming is what he does for work and for fun so Im fine with him playing GTA if he wants. In a week hell be tired of it and that will be that. Now if he played raunchy games or watched raunchy movies as a regular thing Id be concerned, but something like GTA is not our norm. In fact, GTA isn’t really a “normal” video game anyway. Which is exactly why there is so much controversy surrounding it!
Susan,
Of course there are worse things in the world than grand theft auto, I fully agree. And I am not so much concerned about the game itself, but the attitude about it. And like Mike said, there are a lot of other good and powerful influences and thank goodness for that.
I just felt the tone of your post was kind of flippant. Sure some parents could chill out and worry about other stuff, and yet if no one ever got ruffled about this kind of stuff, then more of it would come to be, so I am glad people are up in arms about it– someone needs to be. I myself am so far distanced from it because we don’t allow it in our home and our children are so young.
I don’t think that people are trying to cop out on parenting their children by being upset by the game, I think they just want a better world for their kids. Media tends to push the boundaries, if no one ever pushes back, they just barrel through. And like I said earlier, I am not worried about my own kids, I am more worried about other peoples.
Moderation.
Yes, that is my comment.
Stephanie, if my post seemed flippant it’s because I DO think people are making a bigger deal about it than it is. And I have seen the game so I can have an honest opinion about it.
Another reason we bought it (in addition to what I explained in my last comment) is because our curiosity was so piqued by all the controversy that we wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. While it’s certainly edgy, it’s not nearly as bad as we had imagined.
And you know what? Because people are SO up in arms about it – in my opinion, much more than the game deserves – sales are skyrocketing due in part BECAUSE of it. The people who were going to buy the game were going to buy it regardless, but because certain groups are so publicly upset, people who might otherwise not have purchased the game are doing it out of curiosity – like we did.
So yes, I still maintain that people need to chill out. They are GIVING the game far more power than it would have had otherwise. I know you may not agree with that, but unless you follow the game world then you cant know thats exactly whats happening. Controversy sells.
I blogged about this specifically because I DO care about little Johnny next door. I wanted non-gamer parents to understand that not all games are for kids and that they need to familiarize themselves with game ratings. Due to the reaction this game is getting its clear many parents dont get that and they NEED to get that. They need to pay more attention to popular culture so they can parent accordingly. Personally I dont think its adequate to just tell your kids not to do it – you have to have at least a basic understanding of what you are forbidding, otherwise your words hold little weight.
Carrie, EXACTLY. Moderation is key. Not only in what we ourselves choose to watch our play, but in our reaction to things. Parents, lets not give our power and energy away to something like GTA. It doesnt deserve it; its not worth your time.
[...] rant is brought to you by this post on Seattle Mom Blogs. I agree with the post itself, but some of the comments make my ass [...]
I love GTA! And agree with the post.
As for the comments against the post – No one said GTA *should* be played just because a person is 18 or over. But don’t assume that just because the parents next door allow their child to play something considered unsavory that they don’t know what they’re allowing or don’t care what their child sees. Some children mature faster and do understand the difference between real life and make believe.
Erica, your blog says what I would have posted.
Crime is actually DOWN, society as a whole is LESS violent (public hangings, for example, are a thing of the past).
I’m trying to figure out how a game like GTA is to blame for “girls wearing not enough clothing to school” and “more people living together before marriage” but then, as you said in your blog, people always blame The Media for things they don’t like.
Video games, like TV and movies and even books, are designed for certain audiances. Rather than condemn ALL “M” games or ALL “R” rated movies, I have always taken the approach of looking at what my kids could handle based on their ages and levels of understanding. And I “get” make believe.
I always wonder, though, about people who condemn a book or all movies of a certain type (”R”’s for example), without ever seeing them. There are some amazing “R” movies that are anything but a bad influence. “Schindler’s List” about the Holocaust, comes to mind. Another, “Rainman” about autism, was hardly depraved, and “Ordinary People”, about a family fractured by a death in the family is another.
I just shake my head when people start going off about this sort of thing.
And hey-I have a collection of serial killer books too. My husband jokes that he sleeps with one eye open…
Thanks Agi – I think the girls not wearing enough and people living together before marriage stuff was a tangent and targeted towards the media in general, which I don’t agree with that at all (what a shock, I know).
I don’t watch much TV and I’ve never read teen/cosmo/glamor/whatever magazines. I’m not into pop culture stuff at all and you should see what I used to wear in high school – hahaha Oh, and I’m not married to the father of my 7 month old (ssshhh). We’ve been together for nine years but we have no intention of “tying the knot”.
I totally agree about the inconsistency of “R” ratings! There is a documentary about the rating system “This Film Is Not Yet Rated” – it’s really well done.
Erica– I would like to know what you think the moral decline actually comes from? Or do you not care?
It doesn’t matter to me, that you live with your baby’s daddy and you’re not married, that’s your call. But let’s just look at the facts– your situation is on the rise in this society. 50 years ago, they didn’t even say the word “pregnant” on tv, mom’s and dad’s slept in separate beds and now we have shows like Friends, where “sleepovers” are common and ladies are having babies without being married. Are you trying to say there is NO correlation?
And whether or NOT kids understand the difference between tv and make believe, doesn;t change the fact that those images will be sealed in their minds forever.
And I agree that the ratings system is crap. And I have seen Schindler’s list and there is a really raunchy sex scene that ruins the whole thing. I don’t watch PG movies if I find them offensive either.
Susan– We follow the game world VERY closely at my house– hubs makes games for a living. But we choose not to let that kind of stuff in our house. There are good graphics in other games too.
Agi- Not trying to blame GTA4, for that stuff. Just media in general– MTV maybe?
And my children aren’t just going to not play the game because we tell them not to. Heck, they might at one point, I don’t know. But we are teaching them and raising them (hopefully) to have strong morals and values and to seek after better things. To seek after that which is virtuous, lovely and of good report. And it starts with what we as parents believe and stand for.
Complacency is one of the true evils of our society. I am glad there are people upset about this game, because it means we have not yet become complacent. If that skyrockets sales– which I don’t necessarily think it has, the game’s been around in some version for a long time now– then so be it. Controversy about this stuff is a good thing. The world in which no one says anything about something like this is going to be a nasty place indeed.
So Stephanie, let me make sure I understand you. Would you like to go back to a time when TV parents slept in different beds, unlike REAL parents who didn’t? Would you prefer that TV and movies didn’t even mention pregnancy, when it’s perfectly normal, natural thing in life?
I guess I prefer my media to have some resemblance to reality-you know, where everyone is white and perfect, where there is divorce, and crime and more than one race, where moms work, and gasp-like Erica and her partner LIVE TOGETHER.
As for Schindler’s List, I find it sort of sad and amusing both that you’re repulsed by a sex scene in a movie about the utter depraved inhumanity of the Nazis.
Agi– No of course not. That was just a point about the media. What I am saying is not that media reflects society– that media has a great deal in shaping society. (There are other factors of course, but countless studies show the trends so let’s not go there). And I am just going to ignore the comment about Schindler’s List.
Stephanie – I don’t see “skimpy” clothing styles or sex as a moral decline. I see sex as normal human nature. I don’t see the point in signing a piece of paper in order to make sex acceptable. And while clothing may shape how people view one another I don’t think a person in tattered or “skimpy” clothing is a bad or lesser person than the one wearing turtle necks and ankle length skirts.
I think shows like “Friends” are merely reflecting actual mainstream society and not directing it.
Like Agi wrote – Before TV shows allowed for people portraying married couples to sleep in the same bed I dont think real life married couples suddenly slept in twin beds on opposite sides of the room just because it was shown that way on TV.
I mean if we’re all a bunch of lemmings – shouldn’t it work in reverse as well?
Erica– I think we need to agree to disagree on the point of unmarried sex and tube tops. I have my opinion, you have yours and we aren’t going to sway each other in the opposite direction.
However, what I did NOT say and what I think you are hearing me say is that I look down at people who dress a certain way or live a certain lifestyle. This is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE. I am sure you are a very lovely person and a wonderful mother. Your choice is not a choice I would have made but that’s what it is– YOUR choice. If you’re fine with it, be fine with it. I’m fine with it.
And I don’t think real life married couples suddenly started sleeping in separate beds either. That would be kind of ridiculous wouldn’t it?
Well sister you know I am in fact a cop as is my husband and our other sisters husband (not to mention our other sister is a police dispatcher). If anyone should be upset about cops getting shot up I should, but I am not. Like you said its just a video game. I have two kids and I am the one teaching them morals, right from wrong and that TV and games arent real. I see this ALL the time in my job, Parents dont want to actually take the responsible role of parent, they want their kid to like them. I have a fantastic relationship with my high schooler but she knows what I say goes. As for the drunk driving part…I have arrested many of those (not to mention 1997 my husband and kids were hit head on by a drunk driver) NEVER in my nearly 22 years in Law Enforcement has ANYONE EVER said “I played a video game and thought it would be fun to relive it”. How about finding something to really worry about….like are your kids doing drugs or is the kids they hang out with have the same values you want your kids to have.
Parents…be a parent to your kids, try saying “no” once in awhile. If you dont want your kids to play this then dont buy it or take it away….your the parent and you can take things away, even things they buy.
Morality and doing the right thing is learned at home. A video game won’t ruin your kid nor will any one movie…its what they learn AT HOME BY YOU THE PARENT
I just noticed a typo in my post #18-it should say where everyone ISN’T white and perfect! Sheesh-the entire meaning changes.
Stephanie in your previous comment(s) you wrote:
“Our media shouts out all kinds of nonsense about sex, drugs and other filth. There are more people today walking into malls and open firing, more people living together before marriage, more girls wearing not enough clothing to school and more just general violence and immorality than ever before, and you are going to say media has no effect on that?”
Then after my comments about living together and “skimpy” clothes you wrote:
“I would like to know what you think the moral decline actually comes from? Or do you not care?”
I don’t care what you think of my choices and we can agree to disagree on those points but don’t pretend that asking me about the decline on morality doesn’t equate to you thinking less of the people that make choices you disagree with. It’s in the word decline.
I’m with you, Stephanie. But then I also am shocked that people choose to watch Saw III. Or is it IV?
I think any form of media that glorifies murder, drunk driving, digusting language, misogyny, and general skankiness should be avoided by all people, regardless of age.
Erica– I am sorry you feel that way. I really don’t look down. I have friends (and family members) from all walks of life and I love them all. You don’t need to defend yourself. No one is attacking you.
And you never actually answered my question.
Stephanie – I’m not trying to defend my personal choices. I truly don’t care what “walk of life” you think I come from.
You asked about moral decline with the assumption that I agree morality is on the decline. Since the topic in the comments shifted to “skimpy” clothing and people living together before marriage I assumed that’s what you meant, so with that in mind I did answer your question.
Or do you mean the other question, “And I dont think real life married couples suddenly started sleeping in separate beds either. That would be kind of ridiculous wouldnt it?”
If TV isn’t a reflection but actually shapes society, I don’t think it’s completely out of the question. I’ve known of a married couple and have heard of others that slept in separate beds/rooms, and no, they were not on the verge of divorce.
Deep breaths, people. Deep breaths.
So, I am a clueless Mom. I bought my kids some miscellaneous multi-packs of DS games at Costco for the holidays. They looked liked kids games. Turns out one game is racing with the prize being a big chesty woman dancing. I think it was called “Big Mutha Truckers.” I only found out a few weeks later after my kids had been playing it for weeks. I completely did not do my job as a mother. Damage done.
Yes, I know I suck in some people’s eyes. I know it. I also let my kids watch Stigmata, Hostel (one of the most depraved movies I have ever, ever seen), Kill Bill, and a plethora of other violent movies. Shrug. Most people would say inappropriate. Most of the time, they aren’t interested and walk off to play. But, there is very little I forbid them from watching.
Ah well.
Just so you know, my kids are some of the most well-behaved, easy going, polite, mature, and courteous kids most people will ever meet. Not a day goes by that I don’t get complemented on them. Seriously.
They place nice. They respect adults. They form strong friendships. They excell academically. They are super involved in sports, extracurriculars, student body offices, and humanitarian causes. They’ve watched me volunteer immense amounts of hours over the years and see the importance of doing for others.
I get nothing but rave reviews and comments like “I wish all my students were like your sons and daughter” at teacher conferences. My son seriously has pulled one displine card his entire elementary school career while others pulled 3-4 daily. My kids are compassionate and have been known to stand up to bullies. They are friendly. They are well-liked by all the different groups of kids at school.
So, in short, I just have to go with watching these movies and perhaps an occasional video game has not hurt them, made them violent, depraved, or misbehaved.
When it comes down to it, the responsibility rests with the parent. You must teach children that movies and games are make believe. You must realize it is YOU the parent who is the biggest influence on your young child’s moral upbringing. You must teach them right from wrong. You must give them a core set of beliefs and behavior. Why? Because when they hit their teenage years, you won’t be the biggest influence. You won’t be able to keep them shielded from movies, violence, sex, drugs, and yes, games–unless you keep them in a cave. At that point, it will be up to them to make some decisions. If you have so shielded them, they might not have the filter to make good decisions and the right choices.
As for controversy stirring up sales, absolutely. This reminds me of Tipper Gore and the explicit lyrics stickers of the 90’s. Yes, let’s point out to the kids all the inappropriate content so they want it more.
As for adults playing Grand Auto Theft. Shrug. It’s your thing that you should be allowed to play in the privacy of you home. Video games aren’t my thing and the kids and my husband seem perfectly happy with Guitar Hero and Super Mario Brothers Brawl on the Wii. I doubt I’ll buy it, but I must admit my curiousity is piqued because of this controversy.
Regards,
Scout’s Honor
A very shielded, raised Mormon now agnostic, pre-marital sex having, baby-born out of wedlock, 3.7 GPA Berkeley Honors grad and mother of three, proud former Army Lieutenant, supporter of gay marriage, Republican with some very conservative values, former PTA president, vice-president, treasurer, secretary, and committee chair, eleven years straight room mother extraordinaire, committed wife of almost 12 years who blames none of her mistakes nor her triumphs on video games or movies in any way
PS I think blaming sex/violent crimes on movies, music, or games is the real problem with our society. It strips people of their personality responsibility and gives them an excuse. It was WWF that caused me to kill the kid my mom was babysitting. It was music that made me kill all the kids at my high school. No, my children. It was you. Your hands. Your decision. Your responsibility. It is when we take away that responsibility, but continue to offer freedoms and liberties, is when our culture declines.
Peace.
Scout– well said.
I don’t think media is solely responsible for any of this stuff. But I think sort of shrugging it off and saying it has no effect is really naive and needs to be considered a little more. I never said anyone played GTA and then got drunk and went driving. I am saying the mind is a very powerful thing– what you think about you bring about. Surround yourself with enough negative influences, and blam! You’ve just created a new you.
Erica- you may not think you are being defensive– but I am sensing it in your tone. I am going to play the logic card here:
(From dictionary.com)
moral
adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.
2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.
3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.
4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.
5. conforming to the rules of right conduct (opposed to immoral): a moral man.
6. virtuous in sexual matters; chaste.
7. of, pertaining to, or acting on the mind, feelings, will, or character: moral support.
8. resting upon convincing grounds of probability; virtual: a moral certainty.
noun
9. the moral teaching or practical lesson contained in a fable, tale, experience, etc.
10. the embodiment or type of something.
11. morals, principles or habits with respect to right or wrong conduct.
Now play along with me– if the moral or standard was “thous shalt not have premarital sex” in lets say 1950, with me? And let’s say 65% of the people were living that, (I’m being figurative). Now let’s say that 5 % of people today are living that. Is that or is that not a “decline”?
Now let’s also take a look at the kind of conviction, control and discipline it takes to keep that standard. A lot right? Making it a pretty HIGH standard. It’s certainly a lot easier to just have sex on a whim without commitment or paperwork, isn’t it? Requires very little control or conviction. That is a lower standard. Or at least, a looser one.
So if you don’t like the term “moral decline” can you handle the term, “moral loosening?”
And I am so not judging you. It really doesn’t matter to me how you live your life. If you’re happy with it– great!
Sigh, why do I suddenly feel like there is a special place reserved for me in hell (or wherever) because I watched too many Friday the 13ths as a child? I also just watched Touristas (AGAIN) because, simply, I needed a break from the drama around me and it happened to be on.
If I still owned a copy of Duckhunt, I probably would’ve taken my stress out on the video game even though me, myself in real life, does not support the NRA and is repulsed by people who think it necessary to carry firearms.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is to each, their own. And I agree with Scout – people commit crimes, not music, movies or video games. People.
Stephanie – I think you’re reading too much tone in my writing. – Not the best medium for judging tone.
Logic card eh? Well then, it’s a logical fallacy to take one part that makes up the morality of a given society that has changed and assume it’s all on the decline or that a numerical decline is a bad thing. Spousal abuse is also on the decline since the 1950’s and so is child abuse. I believe the moral standard for the latter was, “spare the rod, spoil the child”.
I agree with your definition but not the premise. Funny that the 1950’s are always used as the example but what about the 1920’s with flapper girls and burlesque shows.
Erica- Fair enough. And I’m sure you’re a lovely person.
“You become what you think about”. ( Earl Nightingale, “The Strangest Secret”)
Well, Michael, I never heard that quote, but I suppose it IS true. I think about…the fact that there are differing standards of “moral” and even “standards” as well as “trash” and even, “good”.
I think about people being able to make choices for themselves and their families without being told they’re contributing to the decline of moral society. I think about it being a good thing that we no longer expect all families to look alike, all kids to dress the same, that some of us can go a bit against convention and won’t be judged for it (by and large, since obviously some still do). I think about movies being worthy despite some shocking scenes BECAUSE of those scenes, the kind that make those very movies all the more realisitic and reflective of society.
Come to think of it, I AM what I think about- a liberal-minded supporter of free speech and free will who doesn’t think that those with tighter moral standards need to tell the rest of us what to do. Wow-it works!
[...] recently started a comment wars over at Seattle Mom Blogs. I don’t feel good about it. I was overly heated and [...]